Are "Extra Deck" Mechanics Healthy? | Game Design

Comments · 121

• ME

  @MetagrossTCG · 4 years ago

  “Giving access to control AND combo” <br><br>The adventure Eldlich decks are basically the second coming of this 😭

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• EM

  @empressivemagic · 5 years ago

  I think one of the things that makes the YGO extra deck so crazy is that when the main deck is your primary component for summoning extra deck monsters, then extra deck monsters that retrieve more of your main deck resources have a LOT more value, especially as main deck starters and enablers become more and more reliable. I get the appeal of building a deck around one card and making use of its effects as best as possible especially with MTG Commander where you only have singles and lands to work with that really leave it to chance, but with YGO sometimes it feels like the main deck can be easily shoehorned into just serving the extra deck and nothing else.<br><br>I prefer them more as a toolbox of smaller flex options responding to certain situations that give you trouble (though I can see how that would be obnoxious, given all the old complaints I&apos;ve heard about the Rank 4 Toolbox), and maybe your main win condition(s) (that can be your &quot;partner&quot;) can be among them, but having them as pieces with which you can climb up with progressively tougher and more powerful win conditions is still a valid and fun use of them. It only becomes an issue IMO when it&apos;s easy to bring out several of those big win conditions at once.

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• MO

  @modernkiwi6447 · 4 years ago

  I’d say one of my biggest issues with Yugioh’s extra deck mechanics right now are Link-1 Monsters. The ability to go into an extra deck play without losing any card advantage is really strong and bypasses the entire cost of going into an extra deck monster to begin with, the fact that you’re losing more than 1 monster to get 1 monster on the board

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• DE

  @DeathlordMiopic · 5 years ago

  I think where the extra deck tends to be healthiest is when extra deck cards are responses, instead of win conditions, or when they have some setup required for them to work.<br><br>Quests in Hearthstone, are an interesting way of implementing extra decks that wasn&apos;t brought up as well.

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• DU

  @DuskMagick · 3 years ago

  It&apos;s all about good balancing, like you said. Old Yu-Gi-Oh fusion monsters were not nearly strong enough to see any play for the three card main deck investment they required. Nowadays you can Link 1 into crazy combos with requirements like &quot;an Effect monster&quot; or other super loose restrictions. I love the example of Gagaga Cowboy because other than simply requiring specific named cards or cards within a named archetype, having a highly situational effect but more generic requirement is a great way to balance that card. Extra Decks are inherently great for all the reasons you said, but they are annoying because of all the awful cards printed. It&apos;s a balancing problem, not a mechanical problem.

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• TH

  @TheNotableNobody · 5 years ago

  Personally, I feel like the Extra Deck is YGO&apos;s greatest feature. That said, I think these problems arise from cards that fail to provide a meaningful hoop to jump through.<br><br>Addressing Companion, they are primarily Eternal Format problems because their deck building constraints can be completely ignored in that environment due to the sheer size of the card pool. Lurrus&apos;s 2 Mana Value restriction means nothing when a format like Vintage already plays exclusively 2 or less Mana Value cards. Lutri&apos;s singleton restriction is a non-factor in a singleton format like Commander. For a non Extra Deck centric game like MtG, the deck building restrictions weren&apos;t well balanced against the 8th card factor.<br><br>For YGO, every successive Extra Deck mechanic was more generic, and the game&apos;s innate pacing was kicked up to further trivialize the effort required to summon Extra Deck monsters. LV8 Synchros are a good example of how a previously restrictive (and therefore deck limited) card can turn into a generic and widespread card as other components around it become more powerful (like the example of Lurrus). Originally, when Duelist Genesis was released, there were no LV4 Tuners in existence. This meant LV8 Synchros were often 3 card combinations (tuner + 2 monsters or LV5+ monster/tribute fodder). Crossroad released the 1st LV4 Tuner with no functional synergies. It takes a year before Flameveils produce a synergistic LV4 Tuner (and it still sucks). I believe last ZEXAL produces the 1st generic LV4 Tuner works as a 1 card combo for LV8 Synchros (Masked Chameleon). You can witness the trend of special summonable LV5+ non-tuners in ZEXAL becoming increasingly common to further trivialize the summon of a LV8 Synchro.<br><br>When it comes to Extra Deck options, you need to be very careful about the components of the Main Deck that can access them.

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• CH

  @chrismiller3548 · 5 years ago

  Extra decks are a blessing and a curse. It gives lower tier decks readily accessible cards that can be very good, but high tier decks can use them too which makes the high tier decks even better

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• YO

  @yourMoonstone · 5 years ago

  I&apos;m torn on Extra Decks because the &quot;every game plays out the same&quot; really burned me once synchro toolbox became a thing. Decks felt like that lost their identity when everything could run goyo guardian. That said I do agree that problem cards aren&apos;t worth throwing the whole concept out. I think working something in like Tag Force&apos;s Destiny Draw would be more interesting. Keep the variance but in a pinch your partner card shows up. Stuff like skills in Speed Duels / Duel Links also reinforce that partner / deck identity concept well. <br>Some kind of available reserve or special zone is really cool all things considered.<br>Happy to see you keep uploading btw. Love your videos 💜

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• BE

  @BestgirlJordanfish · 4 years ago (edited)

  I&apos;m not a Yu-Gi-Oh player anymore, but I always love mechanics that let you have your expressed aspects you know you can pull from. Commanders or Signature starters, vanguards, extra deck, I adore these ideas.<br><br>I love the idea of an extra deck mechanic, just... yeah I can see needing to tune it down. Yu-Gi-Oh had really cool ways to use the extra deck, but I personally don&apos;t like the lengthy Turns with a billion special summons. Links kinda helped push this down a bit once upon a time, but wow I&apos;d love a fresh take on this.

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• ST

  @StudioNBS · 4 years ago

  ahhh for the fifth time in three years… right when I get bored of youtube it suggests an amazing channel with a lot of videos 🙌🏼

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• PA

  @partyrock4144 · 4 years ago

  I like extra deck cards as an ace rather than an extender. It’s super cool to have a big guy that you are obviously going for and can call on in a pinch. Spend your whole hand getting two level 4s on the field? Guess who’s coming!

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  @123bobhall · 5 years ago

  Not a Yu-Gi-Oh player but the insight you have in to games as a hole is amazing and I hope U keep making content

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