MATT BARNES & STEPHEN JACKSON on Fatherhood, Growth, and Life After the NBA | IMO

In this heartfelt and hilarious episode, Michelle and Craig sit down with former NBA stars and All the Smoke hosts Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson for a powerful conversation about fatherhood, personal growth, and life after basketball. From navigating complicated childhoods and a quick rise to fame, to raising grounded kids in a new world, Matt and Stephen share raw and honest reflections on masculinity, vulnerability, and learning to lead by example. And they share hard-earned wisdom from fatherhood as they unpack what it means to raise strong, emotionally aware sons while staying true to their roots and values. 00:00 - Welcome and introductions 01:25 - The origins of Matt and Stephen’s friendship 03:10 - Setting the stage: What today’s episode is about 05:00 - Modern dating myths and media influence 07:45 - When confidence gets mistaken for arrogance 10:30 - The psychology behind attraction and self-worth 13:15 - Matt on why “playing it cool” doesn’t work 15:50 - Stephen’s story: learning to be emotionally open 18:40 - The role of communication in early relationships 21:05 - Why men struggle to express vulnerability 23:45 - When expectations clash in dating 26:20 - Handling rejection without losing confidence 29:00 - The subtle art of reading someone’s interest 31:50 - How social media changes dating behavior 34:10 - Listener question: “How do I rebuild trust after being hurt?” 37:15 - Matt’s advice: Healing before re-entering love 39:45 - Stephen on learning to forgive yourself 42:20 - Lessons from past relationships 45:00 - How growth changes your type and attraction 47:40 - Final reflections: what love really asks of us Subscribe to IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson on YouTube: Have a question for the show? Let us know at IMOpod.com Follow us on social! Instagram: www.instagram.com/imopodcasts TikTok: / imopodcasts Facebook: / imopodcasts X: https://x.com/imopodcasts About IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson Michelle Obama and her big brother Craig Robinson bring their unique experiences and candid perspectives to a range of personal dilemmas, from the everyday to the existential. Each week, they’re joined by a special guest to tackle audience questions with practical advice, terrific stories, and plenty of laughs. From dating and relationships to parenting and financial planning, IMO sees the iconic First Lady at her most relaxed and honest. This podcast will leave you laughing, reflecting, and feeling more prepared to tackle life’s challenges. About Michelle Obama Michelle’s passion for storytelling has set sales records, garnered awards and accolades, and earned her global acclaim. Her memoir, Becoming, spent over 130 weeks on the New York Times Bestsellers list, sold more than 17 million copies worldwide, and won a Grammy Award. American Factory, the first film produced by her and her husband Barack Obama’s media company Higher Ground, won the Academy Award for Best Documentary in 2020. Upon its release in 2020, The Michelle Obama Podcast was the most successful original in Spotify history, bringing in more women listeners over 40 than any other podcast. Through the Obama Foundation, she founded the Girls Opportunity Alliance, which supports adolescent girls' education and empowerment around the world. Follow Michelle Obama on Instagram: Instagram: michelleobama Follow Michelle Obama on Facebook: Facebook: michelleobama Follow Michelle Obama on X: https://x.com/MichelleObama About Craig Robinson Craig is the Executive Director of the National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) and host of the Higher Ground podcast Ways To Win with Hall of Fame coach John Calipari. From 2017-2020, he served as the vice president of Player Development and Minor League Operations for the NBA’s New York Knicks. Previously, he was a Division I head men’s basketball coach at Oregon State and Brown, and spent more than a decade working as a trader in the investment banking industry. Most importantly, he is a husband and father of four. Follow Craig Robinson on X: https:/x.com/craigmalrob Follow Craig Robinson on Instagram: Instagram: craigmalrob About Higher Ground Higher Ground was founded by President Barack Obama and Michelle Obama in 2018 to tell powerful stories that entertain, inform, and inspire—while elevating new and diverse voices in the entertainment industry. Learn more at https://highergroundmedia.com/ Follow Higher Ground on Instagram: instagram.com/highergroundmedia Follow Higher Ground on X: https://x.com/HGMedia