A Journey Through ALICE: Madness Returns

Comments · 930

• AN

  @aname4399 · 4 years ago

  While I agree with you about the bumby confrontation being cartoonish, I feel like you missed an important aspect of WHY him (and the system he represented) being so ...industrial and encompassing so many children was included in the story. One of the most beautiful aspects of AMR to me is the interweaving of the industrial revolution and the subsequent systemic abuse with more &quot;individual&quot; abuses, and the direct correlation thereof. And with that comes Bumby and the asylum&apos;s role.<br><br>When we play as Alice in the very, very, VERY beginning of the game, we are told a few things. 1) she works for bumby in exchange for room and board and 2) she has a very bitter relationship with the other orphans there. They jeer at her, and so, she jeers in return. Something we can understand, even, from the view of our troubled protagonist, and with the stylization of the game and their odd, beady faces, we almost forget that these are ALSO troubled, traumatized orphans (see: charlie&apos;s story as we leave bumby&apos;s office). As we get further in the game and are introduced to the mad children and the dollhouse level, that that theme is emphasized once more, but the idea of the weak and innocent being exploited on systemic levels is one you point out as being present in the whole game. It simply comes to a head at the dollhouse. However, I would like to point out the explicit asylum reference in the design of the mad children<br><br>Not only is this about Alice coming to realize the truth about her trauma and how she&apos;s been exploited for her inner trouble, it&apos;s also an evolution of the survivor&apos;s guilt narrative from before. Alice in the first game WAS the child, helpless and confused, and was incapable of stopping what occured to her. But now, she&apos;s an adult. Regardless of her trauma and abuse, by being unable to see Bumby for what he was, and by pushing away the other orphans (who were just as vulnerable as she was), she was unwittingly complacent in their abuse. That&apos;s a huge part of why she&apos;s so infuriated at the end. She has to come to peace with how even though she couldn&apos;t stop Lizzie&apos;s abuse, how even though she failed to see through Bumby&apos;s lies and failed to support other victims, she can change that NOW, and she can not only act as an agent for her own wellbeing, but for that of others. <br><br>Sorry, I hope this didn&apos;t come across as a harsh criticism or attack, but this part of the story meant a lot to me growing up, because I also went from a helpless child to someone who, despite everything, felt a lot of self loathing when I realized I turned a blind eye to other abuses, and from there, realized I had a lot more power to stop those abuses than I thought I did. This wasn&apos;t just about Alice&apos;s own vengeance, as satisfying as it was-- it was also about protecting the other children in her own limited scope, as a now-adult who finally understood what was happening. And I don&apos;t think it&apos;s a coincidence that child sexual labor and abuses are being drawn in comparison to the industrial revolution of london, in which children were also sacrificed bodily for dangerous labor.

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• AM

  @AmericanMcGeeOfficial · 4 years ago

  Ha. A grind. Ded.<br><br>Yes, the Dormouse Mecha Boss was supposed to be an actual boss encounter. But we could not get the mechanics of it tuned properly so it was abandoned and replaced with the Mecha Fail scene. To make up for that, we plan a TON more boss encounters in Alice: Asylum (though I do think it would be funny to bring back at least one fake-out boss in honor of this one). <br><br>Regarding the issue of &quot;boring repetition&quot;: We only saw this critique appear after Eurogamer gave MR a 50/100 and complained loudly about the game overstaying its welcome. After that, a lot of reviews echoed the sentiment. Prior to that, no one had mentioned it. I believe that was the moment of inception for this idea. /shakes fist at Eurogamer. <br><br>For the nail-on-the-head way we approached the reveal with Bumby and Alice enacting her revenge... There were two big reasons (for me) as a creator. First, this is a deeply personal story for me. As a survivor of physical and psychological abuse, I wanted to see him squished under the wheels of the train. It was and remains a hugely cathartic moment for me. The gore and directness of it were intentionally over the top for that reason. Second, I didn&apos;t want him or this aspect of the storyline resurrected at some later date (by me or any other writer). I wanted to put the nails in the coffin and be done with it. No escape for these particular villains. Again, cathartic and final. No ambiguity. Only revenge. <br><br>That being said, I do not believe - and I hope the games don&apos;t suggest - that revenge is the way to overcome trauma. In fact, what&apos;s ironic about the &quot;game too long&quot; comments is that I think TIME is the primary tool we need in healing these wounds. And that in the time we spend in healing, we must explore and confront, over and over, those things that make us uncomfortable. So the notion of replaying a game like AMR aligns with my idea of therapy. And the more of it and the longer we can spend doing it, the better. <br><br>As for addressing the larger systemic abuses and &quot;the system&quot; - that&apos;s what we do in Asylum. And it continues her arc - from someone who overcomes her inner demons (Alice) to someone who addresses real-world threats against her life (AMR) - and then transforms into someone who can take everything she&apos;s learned and use it to help others (think about the other orphans, the children who have already been sold - what of them?). That next step is what we do in Asylum. <br><br>Everything we&apos;ve done with design for the 3rd game (Asylum), we&apos;ve done via Crowd Design over on Patreon. In that way, I hope that we are able to continue delivering through these games the narrative elements and emotional aspects that make them so cathartic for so many. Making these games has done a lot of help heal my own personal wounds. And I am very happy to see that playing them has helped so many others. <br><br>Thanks, Ragnar, for another great dissection. Your feedback will help shape where we go next.

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• RW

  @RwnEsper · 4 years ago

  The art for this game has held up SO well. It deserves to be held up as an example of why a solid artistic style can be so much better than photorealism for games and interactive media in general.

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• MA

  @maleficentmistressofallevi3252 · 4 years ago (edited)

  I was abused for most of my life, in different stages. Without getting too obscenely graphic and inappropriate for YouTube, when I wasn’t permitted to be around the outside world whatsoever, I did have one book hidden away and it happened to be Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. I would sort of, create and recreate Wonderland over and over again in my mind for years, and during the different stages of prolonged abuse, shifted and manifested. So when I finally became free of it on my own by escaping and working away from homelessness, I had always a particularly fond soft spot for Alice in Wonderland. Eventually when I was looking into games, I found both American McGee’s. Seeing someone else interpret trauma, mental illness and abuse through the sort of lens of Wonderland like I did, meant the absolute world to me. It helped me relate and understand and, honestly not be so quiet to others about the things that happened to me. I’ve only played both once, because of the extremely emotional impact it has on me, but it means more to me than I can express. As dumb as it sounds, it was really nice to be able to beat through creatures and such that symbolized things in the story, along with my own symbolism of it. I will always adore American McGee’s Alice for the creativity and special place in my recovery it had.

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• KI

  @kimackerman2183 · 4 years ago

  &quot;You used me and abused me, but you will not destroy me&quot; I absolutely loved Alice saying that, in no way was i taken advantage of, but I can see people feeling empowered over Alice&apos;s character. How much she grew and overcame her dark past. One of the many reasons I fell in love with the games.

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• MA

  @MaxusFox23 · 4 years ago

  Here&apos;s a little correction I&apos;d like to make: According to &quot;The Art of Alice: Madness Returns&quot; book and McGee himself, the Queen of Hearts is a young version of Alice, not an avatar of Lizzie. I think the script didn&apos;t do a good job communicating that since we know from the first game that the Queen IS part of Alice&apos;s psyche.

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• GO

  @Goldenevil91 · 4 years ago (edited)

  To me Alice madness returns was about abuse shs went through from Dr. Bumbby and apathy of word around. Allowing him keep getting away with what he did to Lizzy and then to the whole household of Liddle family. How dr. Bumbby used systems in place to try and bury the truth of his crimes. How he used his skills to prey on orphans under his care, and Alice was just one of many. <br><br>Sure we can call it was cartoony of Bumbby to explain his plans to Alice and laugh over how he gets away with his operation...but to me it honestly felt like moment where he showed how rotten he was. How sadistic and proud he is of suffering he caused. Of damage he did to those kids...and he keeps getting paid handsomely for it. He keeps flexing this all on Alice because he believes she&apos;s powerless to do anything against him. He is rubbing it in and enjoying every second of Alice&apos;s reactions. A situation he can show her how much of a nothing she is, and Alice has to take it. <br><br>Which is why l loved her pushing him under the train. She give this abuser what he thought was impossible - grave consequences for his actions. She took revenge for everybody this guy hurt and abused. She made sure he can&apos;t do it to again to anybody.<br><br>In other words Alice madness returns is for me story of revenge on her abuser, and killer of her family.

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• PO

  @polrua · 4 years ago

  One of the things I love about Madness Returns&apos; thematic shift from internal to external horror is that it challenges one of horror&apos;s most sacrosanct myths - the Dangerous &quot;Crazy Person&quot;. The truth is that, in the real world, people with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violence, prejudice and systematic abuse and exploitation than its perpetrators.<br> The fact that we have not only seen, but, in a way, experienced Alice&apos;s struggles against her mental illness in the first game is an example of a story that only video games can tell. And we can then see the way she takes this madness (i.e. the Wonderland Symbolism), and the strength she&apos;s gained from the experience of overcoming and learning to live with and deal with it, and it becomes the strength which becomes her greatest weapon against those who would exploit and oppress her and people like her.<br>That&apos;s some damn deft thematic work.

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• CA

  @calebh373 · 1 year ago

  I think an under-discussed aspect of this game is it&apos;s theme of objectification. Alice is frequently objectified by other characters in the game. People tend to see her as a piggy bank, a servant, an object, but rarely a person. Part of the reason why Bumby acts the way he does at the end of the game is because he does not see Alice as a person, he sees her as an object. As a result, he doesn&apos;t take her seriously, so he dismisses and mocks her. Same with the other orphans. Bumby describes the orphans as cattle and doesn&apos;t view their pain as anything to take seriously. Bumby objectified Lizzie to the point where he created a version of her in his head that did not reflect the actual person. When Lizzie didn&apos;t conform to Bumby&apos;s idea of her, he ended her life. This is why Bumby is called &quot;the Dollmaker&quot;; he objectifies everything around him.

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• DA

  @dancingCarapace · 3 years ago

  My only issue with this essay is you seem to misinterpret Bumby’s place in Alice’s memories. Alice was not a victim of Bumby’s, not in that sense anyhow. And his abuse of Lizzy was a one time affair. When collecting Alice’s fragmented memories throughout wonderland, we learn from Lizzie’s own mouth that Bumby (at the time a student of Arthur Liddell) had mistook her simple glances in his direction and minimal, courteous conversing as soliciting his affections, and he began to obsess over her. Lizzie was already a young adult when Bumby’s obsession finally boiled over, and on the eve of the fire, he broke into Lizzie’s room and assaulted her, either killing her on purpose so she couldn’t blab, or accidentally out of rage.<br><br>Bumby never had to gaslight Alice into believing that when she had seen him in the house that night, she had actually seen a Centaur, or that the noises she heard from Lizzie’s room was just her sister mumbling in her sleep, as Alice had already convinced herself of that fact during her 10 year catatonia, so as to protect her already fragile and young mind from the horrid truth. And he didn’t need to convince her that it was Dinah and her own forgetfulness that caused the fire, as her own survivor’s guilt did that just fine.<br><br>Bumby’s abuse of Alice was purely psychological, as he tried to destroy her memories, and in doing so, the last piece of evidence pointing to him.

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• ER

  @eric_the_egggremlin · 4 years ago

  bruh, the fact that the villain is revealed and condemned so clearly is GREAT, because it hammers home the fact that <b>they know what they are doing*. People like that in real life know that they are incredibly, horrifically evil, and they *enjoy</b> it. For folks like me who <b>need</b> to see the villain unmasked fully, it&apos;s cathartic. There are no more lies, no more insidious hints that she&apos;s spouting nonsense. And then there is an appropriately gory death &lt;3

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• MA

  @MaxusFox23 · 4 years ago (edited)

  I remember this one AMcG:A+A:MR video and how it praised the first&apos;s sense of finality and critizing the second as &quot;unnecessary and it just serves as an excuse to make Alice suffer even more&quot;.<br>And I was just here thinking: &quot;Does this person not know the concept of relapse or...?&quot;, because it happens all the time with mental health patients. Did that person seriously think that someone that has been catatonic for 10 years in an asylum was gonna be a-ok after waking up and leaving?<br>Plus, (afaik) American McGee himself confirmed that Alice being dressed in her blue Wonderland dress at the end of the first game was an indicator that she wasn&apos;t out of the woods yet, since that&apos;s not how she actually looks like in the real world (as seen in A:MR).<br><br>Great essay, RagnaRox. I was waiting for this one!

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