Thoughts on Women in Ministry 😳 (why I respectfully think Winger is wrong)

Comments · 144

• DU

  @DustyMayT · 3 months ago (edited) · pinned

  Just a side note, when I say don&apos;t slam me too hard in the comments because it&apos;s hard for me not to fight - I just mean, please be respectful and try not to make personal attacks if you disagree. I am very for discussion! But it&apos;s super hard in this subject if someone comes at me with an edge. Just being honest - I&apos;m a work in progress. But respectful dialogue is no problem. [Edit - Andrew Bartlett &amp; Terran Williams&apos; response to Winger&apos;s series on women (thank you to Clara in the comments for this!) - <a href="https://terranwilliams.com/what-winger-presently-gets-wrong-women-leaders-in-the-new-testament-part-a/">https://terranwilliams.com/what-winger-presently-gets-wrong-women-leaders-in-the-new-testament-part-a/</a> ]

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• RA

  @rachelbecker3554 · 3 months ago

  I&apos;m so happy I came across this! I left an abusive marriage about a year ago and it has led me to deconstruct a lot of the complimentarian views I grew up with. I literally didn&apos;t even know there was another way to view male/female dynamics as a Christian. I&apos;m happy to discover a biblical worldview that doesn&apos;t subjugate women.

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• RO

  @robertdeacon289 · 3 months ago

  Another insightful podcast. Your pickup that Mary inverted Eves&apos;s failure is amazing<br> I am still praying for an egalitarian mate for you.

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• KE

  @KevinMooseles · 3 months ago

  The brief clip of &quot;second breakfast&quot; when talking about the son and father, and the cool glasses on St. Iraneous (sp?) were both hilarious. This is a very serious and very tricky subject to navigate and your calm, positive, and rooted approach is a blessing and joy to experience.

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• BA

  @banmancan1894 · 2 months ago

  This is right on timing wise. I&apos;ve seen different people (Brother Oz notably) recently attempt to defend complementarianism strongly, so it&apos;s nice to see some egalitarian representation in the algorithm. <br><br>Also someone who is recovering fighter, it&apos;s a blessing to see you also who struggles with it handling this with the gentleness and grace.

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• WR

  @Wren_Farthing · 3 months ago

  Many scholars have challenged the translation that Eve was formed from Adam’s rib, believing it’s more accurate to say she was taken from his &quot;side&quot;. The idea follows the pattern of division we see earlier in the creation account: light separated from dark, earth from sky, land from sea, etc. In other words, the creation of Eve was the division of humanity into male and female. &nbsp; <br> <br>The difference between &quot;rib&quot; and &quot;side&quot; seems insignificant on the face of it, but I wonder if subtleties like this influence people in one theological direction vs. another. For example, the &quot;rib&quot; translation makes Eve sound more like an offshoot of Adam, or a kind of subset of him, which could fuel a sense of hierarchy in those who are already inclined in that direction. The “side” translation is suggestive of a mutual relationship between male and female, which supports a more egalitarian vision.

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• PA

  @patriciabenavente8147 · 1 month ago

  I totally agree with you. I think people when they look at this topic they see it from a human, earthly perspective not from God&apos;s viewpoint. That&apos;s why they are not capable to see it as it truly is, no difference in ministry. It&apos;s the Holy Spirit doing the ministry, serving God and people, and this is above all a spiritual act of worship and in the spirit there are no genders.

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• RH

  @Rhule_N_Reyne · 1 month ago

  Hi Dusty, I have been looking into it too. I agree that in both PT and NT, women have been used in ministry. Even Apostle Paul, who seemingly stated that women should remain silent in church (I need to research full context), he commends females leading and/or &nbsp;hosting &quot;churches&quot; in their homes.

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• DE

  @debandgil · 2 months ago

  <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lagodKXf3zU&amp;t=1821">30:21</a> Kudos to your intense studies. I love God’s word and I am open to hear all sides as long as there is strong biblical evidence evidence. This debate is an age old one, and I was happy to give you a listen. I love your spontaneous laughter and seeing the joy you get in learning and teaching. I do want also acknowledge that Jesus was not created from Mary. It is error to suggest this. Please be careful with how you teach this point. “15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.” (Col <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lagodKXf3zU&amp;t=75">1:15</a>-18)

• ON

  @onlyonethingisneedful · 3 months ago

  I highly encourage you to watch Mime Winger&apos;s series. You may have more in common with him in this area than you think primarily because he discusses both sides with scripture and while he definitely lands on the side of complementarism, he is as gracious as you are with seeing that there are 2 sides. if scripture didn&apos;t support either sides then we probably wouldn&apos;t even be having this discussion. I love your gracious attitude, it inspired me to calm down when it comes to issues, especially when it comes to theology. I came out of the hyper charismatic stream and swung the complete other way, despising prophecy and being angry at the lies and false teachings. I am calming down and am truly just seeking the Lord and repenting allowing my regret to fester into bitterness. Love your videos! Blessings to you!

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• CM

  @cmrsnowflake · 2 months ago (edited)

  I&apos;m not in the same faith tradition, so sort if random that I was served this, but I enjoy theology and I appreciated your nuanced thoughts here. <br><br>As a raging feminist myself, my one comment is in response to the point where you say (paraphrasing) &quot;if, all other things being equal, it turned out more men than women are drawn to leadership, that&apos;s fine with me.&quot; I would agree. It&apos;s just that my focus as a feminist is on all The Things that are In Fact Not Equal. The hypothetical world where we would in fact find out how things shake out if we go purely by merit is, indeed, the objective of feminism.<br><br> (Now, not everyone realizes this, so it behooves me to say that the spectrum of opinions within feminism is about as diverse as the spectrum of variants of Christianity. The objective of feminism, like the definition of &quot;salvation&quot;, can be a broad unifying theme if phrased simply enough, but the interpretations have evolved into many different branches and sub-branches with both credal and practical-cultural variation. If I had to guess, my particular reaction here would probably be pretty uncontroversial. Maybe not quite &quot;Jesus Died For You&quot; uncontroversial, but not too far below that---a lot less controversial than, say, infant baptism or the canonicity of Enoch.)<br><br>Sorry if I went on a bit there on a minor aside. My main comment is that I appreciate your intellect AND emotional intelligence in how this laid out your argument. I just realized I&apos;m the outsider in this chat. <br><br>Anyway, totally would love to hear more about your aunt AND your grandmother.

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• LJ

  @ljswaan · 3 months ago

  Hi there. Good breakdown of your stance. I think you might be in agreement with Mike Winger more than you realise.<br><br>I think Mike Winger is quite balanced in his view on Women in Ministry. I also didn’t watch the full 40h series, but at least his first video, and part 13. Those basically summarises his belief. In one of his videos on his channel, he did mention that if a woman is more qualified, or if theres no qualified man to start a church in her location, she’s qualified to lead a church. I’ll too have to rewatch those two videos because it’s been a while. But from what I recall, he is quite balanced on this topic.<br><br>Justin Peters, Paul Washer and Voddie Baucham opened my eyes on certain topics, incl women pastors. Melissa Dougherty also helped me understand certain topics. I also come from charismatic background and a heavily tainted view on Christianity involving new age practices, so these people helped me grow out of it. Paul Washer’s famous sermon led me to the true Gospel.<br><br>I Hope you and your channel grow in the Lord.

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