Sora Vs Joker | Who Wins? (Kingdom Hearts Vs Persona)

Comments · 345

• YO

  @yojosenpai261 · 1 year ago · pinned

  Some things I neglected to mention in this video:<br>- Both characters had help in their respective fights and could be argued to not fully scale to their opponents.<br>- Both arguments for Outer and High outer rely on old definitions on Character stats and Profiles and religions in persona’s case.<br>- I neglected to mention some things like the velvet room and others in the google doc that you can check out.<br>- This could possibly get to either around Multiversal to Hyperversal but the matchup would still be close regardless

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• RA

  @raheemaslam7363 · 1 year ago

  The one thing I find funny is that Joker can’t give Sora a mental shutdown because:<br><br>A. Sora isn’t a original denizen of Joker’s world<br><br>B. Sora’s bloodline wouldn’t have been there for Nyx to crash land onto earth and have the humans absorb the shards of Nyx

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• JA

  @JaxsonEvans · 1 year ago

  Awesome vid and FUN FACT, Ansem The Wise states in Melody Of Memory that Dreams, Memories, and Data are all worlds.<br>This basically means that every dream that people have, every memory that people have, and anything data related like video games would be WORLDS with arguably no limit on how big or yhe scale they can get.<br>It&apos;s also stated there is an UNCOUNTABLE amount of WORLDS by Xehanorts reports (which I do see apears in this video <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf09ca-OT4A&amp;t=189">3:09</a>) with The Hercules World in KH3 outright being called a COSMOS by both Hades and The Narrator.<br>There&apos;s also Wreck It Ralph in KH3 that is arguably Outerversal since it&apos;s connected to other fictional verses like Sonic, Bowser, and other fictional characters along with it having a place called the INTERNET which further reaches out to other fictional verses like Marvel.

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• EE

  @eeveeboss6449 · 1 year ago

  Personas are stated (at least in persona 4 and 5, I haven’t played 3) to be manifestations of the soul similarity to shadows and only look like mythological characters due to the unconscious perceive them as such

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• PY

  @pyrakitsuragi · 1 year ago

  I literally brought this up to someone in a P5R stream, musing how the phantom thieves would react to the world of KH and how Sora would react to the Phantom Thieves in Persona. I also missed and came up with ideas as to how the Shadows would translate into the Heartless, and vice versa. I put WAY too much time into this hypothetical

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• JA

  @jameswilliams6008 · 1 year ago

  Sora slaps but both are goated

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• TY

  @tylercafe1260 · 1 year ago (edited)

  What makes fighting Sora difficult is his powers are literally his friendship. Meaning Sora can do literally what everyone else can do. If you ever notice Sora has two main methods of fighting which is using his Sword skills and copying abilities. Sora is a Copycat Magic User. If the Villian does a thing Sora can even flip it and use it against them. Oh you use cards? So can I. Oh you use a giant club? Now I can too. Shoot bullets at me? Right back at yeah. <br><br>How do you fight Sora? Lol he can turn your best strength as your own weakness. For every Persona Joker can use Sora has Dreameaters. It&apos;s very heavily one sided. Joker needs to be in the Metaverse to get his power. Since his power is based on human psychology and imagination. The key difference &nbsp;between Joker and Sora is that if Sora got arrested they would 100% believe him because he&apos;s straight up magical. Whip out the Keyblade and explain to Sai what&apos;s up. He would speedrun Personas problems.<br><br>Also Sora and Joker share a similar power scaling. Personas and imagination are only as strong as the collective consciousness thinks. Sora is literally powered by belief. Why? Because it stems from Taoism. Where if your family honors you in death you can become more &quot;Deific&quot; in the afterlife as more praise your hard work. Sora literally embodies that by having all his friends believe in him. It has almost nothing to do with &quot;Friendship&quot; just the act of &quot;Believing Sora&quot; is what powers him up. <br><br>Because in Taosim they show the Yin-Yang. Light and Darkness needs to be mastered in order to harness the third element &quot;Ki&quot; when you form them together. Get it? Keyblade? Ki-Blade? Sora has too much going for him to even humor the idea Joker can hurt him at all.

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• EN

  @EndlessSkiesOverload · 1 year ago

  Funny part is that if those&apos;s who still doesn&apos;t believe that Sora is Low Multi to High Outer, <b>Devonte The One</b> even stated Sora&apos;s feats in his Sung-Jin Woo short. 😭😭

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• HM

  @Hmmmmmm929 · 1 year ago (edited)

  Let me like expand on the scaling of the tree of life for SMT/persona<br>The tree of life is made up for 4 realms <br>Assiah<br>Yetzriah <br>Briah<br>Atzulith<br>Assiah is the physical/human world made up of infinite parallel universes stated in SMT liberation Dx2. Although some Megaten scalers would say mementos is only assiah with a P5X scan, but it was proven to be mistranslated as the original untranslated version never mentions physicality not having the kanji for physicality. &nbsp;Also it wouldn’t even make sense since mementos has been described as spiritual by morgana.<br><br>Yetzriah(velvet room is likely here with its description of being between mind(briah) and matter(assiah), this is also where the demon world)<br>The yetzriah transcends the human world significantly, and transcends space and time. &nbsp;One of the 2 orbs in the yetzriah called hod contains the template for material functions meaning it contains things like space, time, mathematics and dimensionality as they are based on materialism(this can be assumed as yetzriah already transcends a physical realm(assiah) so the mention of material functions most likely means the concepts I had mentioned). We can also see that time and space holds no meaning in the ”land between” which should be yetzriah Being similar to the velvet room. Overall the yetzriah should be low complex multi(transcending past present and future) - outerversal(time and space holding no meaning)<br><br>Beriah(likely where mementos could be put in with it being stated to be a spiritual realm)<br>The yetzriah is transcended by beriah which is completely spiritual in nature which means it lacks yetzriahs spatial and temporal properties making it outerversal through transcending material composition.<br>Should be baseline outerversal-high outerversal(If your assuming yetzriah is outer)<br><br>Atzulith(sea of souls: particularly the kadath mondala)<br>The Atzulith the final realm transcends beyond all lower realms even being stated to be completely inaccessible by them, and considering how these realms are already spatially displaced this would refer to a beyond infinite hierarchy making it high outerversal as it transcends undimensioned realms the same way unidimensioned realm transcend dimensioned one’s(how the &nbsp;Atzulith transcends briah the same way Beriah transcends yetzriah). it is also described as a archetypal world same as the kadath mondala.<br><br>Why would joker exactly scale to this?<br>It’s because in p5 yaldaboath in a weaker form(the holy grail) directly fused the sea of souls with the human world stated by azathoth to Maruki when he said that yaldaboath had fused the human world to the realm where he is derived from the sea of souls which contains the kadath mondala an archetypal world which would be the Atzulith(an archetypal world) making yaldaboath high outer being able to effect the Atzulith. If we are limiting it to mementos it would still be outer-high outer as mementos can be seen as briah as briah is a spiritual world and mementos is a spiritual realm.<br>So joker(scaling to yaldaboath) is outerversal to high outer<br>Also this is no offense obviously just adding some info about the cosmology. If you want the specifics go to @nahbinokami or @refantazio on discord. They have better knowledge of cosmology than me. I would also like to see any potential insights you have about this.<br><br><br>Edit:there is a statement by Lucifer that states that joker transcends mementos so it could be another way to get joker to high outer maybe higher if you see briah as high outer. Also my stance on the debate itself is leaning more towards joker with tree of life scaling getting joker equal to maybe over the tier sora is in.

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• MI

  @MicahMane · 1 year ago

  As soon as I heard it in your voice I subbed when I saw your avatar I smiled 😂🔥💯

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• AC

  @AceofJokers099 · 1 year ago

  Great Video, I appreciate the perspective!

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• YO

  @Yonko_Ty · 1 year ago (edited)

  Papa Jo finally posted Yass

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