Churchill and the Dardanelles - Christopher Bell

Comments · 83

• AL

  @alanjohnson5847 · 4 years ago

  I think it was less a product of Churchill's (anyone else's) defects in planning than it was a total underestimation of the capabilities of the Turkish defenders.  They were much much better than anyone in France or the UK (or anywhere else) gave them credit for.  Mustafa Kemal is a good example.

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• TH

  @TheNumeroUno1 · 1 year ago

  Very interesting presentation. This man, Dr. Christopher M. Bell, passed away on May 15th 2024.

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• JU

  @justinmueller3141 · 5 years ago

  Churchill usually had a good grasp of strategy but not of operations. He had a good idea if what to do but not how to do it.

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• WA

  @waterboy181 · 2 years ago

  Chris you were amazing. You will be missed.

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• BO

  @BobSmith-dk8nw · 3 years ago (edited)

  Robert K. Massie&apos;s <i>Castles of Steel</i> has (iirc) a different version of things.<br><br>First off you can&apos;t separate the two aspects of the battle - as one was heavily influenced by the other. &nbsp;Also - this campaign grew out of what had preceded it.<br><br>Early on in WWI - you have the flight of the German Battle Cruiser Goeben. &nbsp;Caught in the Med at the beginning of the war - it - being pursued by the British - flees to the Dardanelles - and requests permission from the Neutral Turks to enter.<br><br>Permission is granted.<br><br>At this point - the Turks (because they are still neutral) can only allow it to stay there for a short time. &nbsp;So - what the Germans and the Turks agree on - is that the Germans will GIVE the Goeben to the Turks. &nbsp;At that point - it will technically NOT be a German ship any more - it will be an Ottoman Ship (and they change the name).<br><br>What they did not change - was the crew. &nbsp;The Goeben still had a German Captain and German Crew - which bring the Ottomans into the war - by attacking Russian Shipping.<br><br>The British see this - and wonder if the fact that the Goeben was sitting a few hundred yards off the coast of the Ottoman Capital - with those 11&quot; Guns - had had any effect on getting the Ottomans to join Germany. &nbsp;The British think - what if WE put ships with big guns &nbsp;off the coast of the Ottoman Capital? &nbsp;So - they begin coming up with a plan to do so.<br><br><br>Then - as I understand it - the plan was for the Army to land troops at the base of the Peninsula to cut it off. &nbsp;At this point in time - the Peninsula was not heavily defended as the Turks didn&apos;t expect anyone to do anything like this. &nbsp;With the Peninsula cut off the British would then be able to attack South against an un-reinforced garrison and together the Army and Navy would reduce the Turkish Defenses, &nbsp;With that done the fleet could sit a few hundred yards off the Ottoman Capital - and maybe - the Turks would quit. &nbsp;If it succeeded they&apos;d have eliminated a Major Central Powers Ally - and - gained access to Russian Ports on the Black Sea. &nbsp;If it failed - they could hardly have taken losses as serious as those on the Western Front. &nbsp;As mentioned - the ships they planned on using were already scheduled to be scrapped anyway.<br><br>The Army refuses.<br><br>The Navy is like - <i>&quot;OK. &nbsp;We&apos;ll do it ourselves&quot;</i> .<br><br>The British Naval guns - are in fact effective against the Turkish Forts. &nbsp;The thing they have trouble with - are the smaller guns - but these smaller guns can&apos;t really hurt the Battleships - and - being that these are mostly Howitzers that are indirect fire weapons - they aren&apos;t that good at hitting moving targets.<br><br>Here the main problem is simply the Civilian Crews of the Mine Sweepers. &nbsp;The moment they take fire - they flee - and the Navy can&apos;t stop them. &nbsp;<br><br>So - the Navy tries it&apos;s big push - AFTER - the Turks have become VERY much aware of what&apos;s going on. &nbsp;The Turks put in that extra mine field that they had the time to put in - because the Civilian Mine Sweeping Crews had kept running away - and the Navy loses some ships.<br><br>Now - the Navy is going to put entirely Navy Crews on the Mine Sweepers - and try again.<br><br>At this point - with the Navy Ready to go on with the Campaign - as the casualties they have suffered are nothing in comparison to what&apos;s happening in Western Europe - the Army decides it will participate after all.<br><br>The Navy drops the idea of running the Strait - and moves into a supporting role for the Army. &nbsp;This puts an end to any possibility of the Campaign not being a failure.<br><br>The problem is - the idea of cutting off a weakly held Peninsula by landing at the top of it - is long since gone. &nbsp;Once the Navy began it&apos;s efforts to run the Straits - the Turks realized the danger and put troops on the beaches at the top of the Peninsula. &nbsp;With no ability to do the type of Assault Landings that were done in WWII - the Army can&apos;t be landed there any more.<br><br>So - the Army lands where it can land - on whatever undefended beaches it can find - with the major landings on the far tip of the Peninsula. &nbsp;The problem here - is that the Turks NOW have Reserves - ready to respond to any British Landings on the Peninsula - so when they do - these Turkish Forces move to block the expansion of these British Landings.<br><br>Here - we now have the exact same situation as on the Western Front - with it&apos;s trenches and barbed wire, machine guns and artillery. &nbsp;Most of the British are at the tip of the Peninsula - where they are worthless - and the ANZAC Beach is to weak and to hemmed in by the Turks to break out.<br><br>The Navy doesn&apos;t try to run the Straits again. &nbsp;Since the Navy is now tied to supporting the Army Landings &nbsp;- which are hopeless - the Campaign has failed - they just don&apos;t know it yet.<br><br>Eventually they figure that out - and withdraw.<br><br>The Campaign failed - first, because it was not a joint plan by the Army and the Navy - and second because the Navy, with it&apos;s lack of experience clearing mines - was not aware of the difficulties of trying to do so with the Civilian Crews that came with the boats they bought if those boats came under fire.<br><br>These two things CAUSED the failure - but that doesn&apos;t mean it could have succeeded. &nbsp;Had these two aspects of the Campaign succeeded - we don&apos;t know what else might have happened - such as what the Ottoman Response would have been or what else they might have done. &nbsp;The Ottomans would after all - even if the Peninsula was taken - still occupy the Eastern Shores of the Strait.<br><br>It was not however - a bad idea. &nbsp;The losses incurred in the failure - would have been well worth it had it succeeded and knocked the Ottomans out of the war.<br><br>Churchill got all the blame though - was sacked - and joined his Regiment (he did after all have a membership in an Army Regiment) as a Battalion Commander and spent some time in the Trenches before returning to the Government.<br>.

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• AL

  @almacmathain6195 · 4 years ago

  Churchill was reckless, my grandfather fought at Gallipoli in 1915 and my father at Anzio in 1944, both were bloodbaths, both were Churchill’s projects.

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• GR

  @granskare · 7 years ago (edited)

  churchill always liked these weird schemes :) I believe it is the Royal Navy. &nbsp;In the late 1950&apos;s, I was stationed on the sea of Maramara near Karamursel, Istanbul had a million people at that time.

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• TE

  @terminator-qf6vw · 5 years ago

  the idea of knocking the ottamns out of war was a good idea but was badly stuffed up in the execution

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• KE

  @kerwinbrocksmith2386 · 1 year ago

  Love

• MH

  @mhick3333 · 3 years ago

  Good presenter nice graphics❤

• AR

  @archie599 · 1 year ago

  Charlie Kirk brought me here R.I.P brother

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• БР

  @БрусЛи-м3ю · 5 years ago

  Churchill fighting till the last Aussie/Kiwi

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