Eli Got Cornered. Flowers Made It Worse for the Atheist

Comments · 69

• RO

  @roguecalvinist · 2 weeks ago · pinned

  Flowers told the atheist: &quot;It&apos;s YOUR responsibility — God already did everything.&quot; <br>Eli told him: &quot;In and of yourself, you can&apos;t.&quot; <br> <br>Who actually helped PineCreek hear the gospel? <br> <br>Drop your take — and if you&apos;re the atheist in the comments, ask the hard question. I&apos;ll answer it straight.

  10

• CB

  @CBALLEN · 2 weeks ago

  Isaiah 55:11 (ESV): 11 so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; <br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;it shall not return to me empty, <br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, <br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

  10

• ON

  @oncewereheathens9364 · 2 weeks ago

  Simply hearing the Word is not enough, Leighton always always ignores that his own position requires prevenient grace as a minimum for the unbeliever to be able to assent to the Gospel.

  2

• RE

  @RevealedApologetics · 2 weeks ago (edited)

  I love video games and I love theology, so you get points for this video. I don’t agree with all your takes about this interaction, but overall, I thought you gave a good and fair analysis. Thanks. <br>PS, I also disagree with the title as I don’t think I got cornered at all. I was familiar with Pine Creek for a while and he knows full well what Calvinists say in response to these questions and that is why I did not go into too much detail. Nevertheless, thank you so much for the analysis. I really appreciate it.

  13

• KO

  @koraegis · 2 weeks ago

  “It is your responsibility… not God’s.”<br>Flowers repeatedly says:<br>“It is your responsibility… not God’s.”<br>“God has done what he needs to do for Pine Creek to come to faith.”<br>“There is nothing lacking here.”<br>This sets up a false antithesis.<br>Reformed theology does not deny human responsibility. It affirms:<br>Sinners are commanded to repent and believe.<br>Sinners are guilty if they refuse.<br>Sinners are blameworthy for their unbelief.<br>But it also affirms:<br>Sinners, left to their own fallen nature, will not and cannot savingly come to Christ.<br>Therefore, if anyone is saved, it is because God has done more than issue a command; He has changed the heart.<br>The Bible holds both together:<br>Responsibility: “God commands all people everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30); “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).<br>Inability and divine initiative:<br>“No one can come to me unless the Father… draws him.” (John 6:44)<br>“Unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3)<br>“By grace you have been saved through faith… it is the gift of God, not a result of works.” (Eph. 2:8–9)<br>Flowers’ formulation effectively says: “God has done all He needs to do for everyone; now it’s up to you.” But that makes the decisive difference between salvation and damnation a human act of will, not God’s grace.<br>In Reformed terms, that is not biblical responsibility; that is semi-Pelagianism: God does part, man does the decisive part.

  2

• HO

  @holdfast10155 · 2 weeks ago

  Leighton Flowers is stuck in Luke 18:11. Boasting on about his humility and his rising to the duties of his responsibilities all on his own. He&apos;s made himself as an idol to himself. &quot;look what I&apos;ve done!&quot; He is in bad bad trouble with that. That doctrine of his is going to cause him to land squarely in Matthew 7:21-23

  8

• NI

  @NickyByloo · 2 weeks ago (edited)

  I like Eli. He can get very philosophical as I think he deals with philosophers a fair bit, but I also like your deduction and simplification as it pertains to scripture. A nice summation for the simple minded like me.

  5

• TE

  @Terrylb285 · 2 weeks ago (edited)

  2 ways to look at this I guess, &nbsp;did Christs life death and resurrection make salvation possible for people to choose. Or did his life death and resurrection obtain salvation for those whom the Father had given him before the foundation of the world.

  1

• BO

  @bobh6973 · 2 weeks ago

  John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”<br>....<br>42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.<br><br>43“Why do you not understand fnwhat I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.<br><br>44“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.<br>45“But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

  2

• BO

  @bobh6973 · 2 weeks ago (edited)

  &quot;Please stop telling people &apos;if left yourself&apos; to the unbeliver. They have heard the inspired Word of God from a holy messager...:- Leighton <br><br>Mr. Flowers, The message of the cross and resurrection of Jesus means nothing if it came to an unbeliever from a tract, a holy Spirit filled provionist, Calvinist, or Armenian if God does not open the heart of the unbeliever.<br><br>The gospel has been presented or delivered and received and in like manner rejected- but has been delivered to the unbeliever for God to open their heart in His timing, not ours.<br><br>This is something provionist cannot accept that salvation is all of God and not of man.

  7

• CA

  @Cal_Vinist · 2 weeks ago

  It&apos;s a loaded question. &quot;God&apos;s fault&quot; implies that God is immoral or did something wrong. Leighton Flowers has this problem as well when shifted back to the garden and having to explain sin&apos;s origin, and that God created Adam and Eve with the capability to sin.

  5

• TA

  @talkingmudcrab718 · 2 weeks ago

  Can I just fall under the &quot;God preserves the simple?&quot; Because this shit is confusing as hell.

  1