141: Why Western ideas crash and burn in the Middle East, with Simon Sebag Montefiore

To support our work, please consider joining our Patreon community (Patreon: AskHavivAnything ), Substack (https://havivgur.substack.com/ ), or Buy Me a Coffee (https://buymeacoffee.com/havivrettiggur ). And be sure to check us out on Instagram (Instagram: haviv.rettig.gur ) and TikTok (TikTok: haviv.rettig.gur ). -- Why does the West misunderstand the Middle East? Best-selling historian Simon Sebag Montefiore returns to the pod to discuss The Cauldron, his sweeping new history of the region, from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the birth of its modern states to oil, Islamism, revolution and the Arab Spring. The book is a kind of prehistory of present-day Western stumbling in the Middle East. Western powers repeatedly arrive with grand political theories — imperialism, nationalism, socialism, liberal democracy — only to watch them change beyond recognition or collapse on contact with the region’s deeper identities, loyalties and social contracts. It is a conversation about the states that endured, the ones that failed, and why the Middle East remains so intensely debated in the West — and so poorly understood. -- This episode is sponsored by the Technion. Israel became the Startup Nation by turning talent into strength, ideas into industries. For more than a century, the Technion has trained the engineers, scientists, and entrepreneurs who transformed Israel into the Startup Nation and delivered breakthroughs that changed the world. Now Technion scientists are advancing the next wave of innovation to help power Israel’s next chapter. Israel. Engineered by the Technion. Join us. Visit  https://ats.org/rebuild. -- If you like what we do here, please consider joining our Patreon community at Patreon: AskHavivAnything or our Substack at https://havivgur.substack.com/. You can also Buy Me a Coffee at https://buymeacoffee.com/havivrettiggur. It helps us keep the lights on. Patreon and Substack are also the platforms where you can ask the questions that guide the topics we cover on the podcast, join our great discussions where listeners share news and valuable resources, and take part in our monthly livestreams where Haviv answers your questions live. If you would like to sponsor an episode, please email us at [email protected]⁠. Musical intro by Adam Ben Amitai. Chapters 00:00 Introduction: Why the Middle East's History Matters Today 01:46 Simon Sibag Montifiore's Background and Motivation for the Book 04:02 The Origins of Middle Eastern States and Their Success 06:51 The Significance of Ibn Saud's Rise in 1902 09:02 The Fall of the Ottoman Empire and Its Aftermath 11:55 The Family Dynasties: Saud, Hashemite, and Others 15:06 Promises and Betrayals During WWI and Their Impact 19:50 The Creation of Modern Turkey and Ataturk's Role 25:09 The Impact of Oil Discovery in the 20th Century 29:49 World War II, Fascist Alliances, and Regional Backlash 35:08 The British Empire's Retreat and Its Consequences 39:54 The Partition of Palestine and Its Repercussions 45:02 The Role of Religion and Identity in State Formation 49:47 The Arab Spring: More Than a Democratic Movement 54:57 The Lasting Impact of Historical Snares and Ambushes 01:00:12 The Power of the Middle East in Western Imagination 01:04:05 Why Understanding History Is Crucial for the Future