@Theopologetics Vs @DrJordanBCooper - CROSS EXAMINATION: Is Limited Atonement Biblical?

Comments · 16

• MI

  @michaeldomingue-bosley4273 · 11 days ago

  1 Side says Jesus prays for some people and they don't end up saved. The other side says Jesus does not pray for the salvation of people and He fails. I personally agree with the Calvinist side on this. Jesus can not fail. If He prays for everyone and people do go to Hell, Jesus' prayers were not effective. I don't understand how that would ever make sense theologically. God help us

  1

• WA

  @warrenbuyer · 12 days ago

  The gospel of John would tell us that Christ's death was sufficient and efficacious to save everyone He came to save. God doesn't fail to do something

  2

• FO

  @Foolishthings11 · 13 days ago

  I don’t fully understand the objection in John 17 from Dr. Cooper. His insistence that verse 12 is specifically about the apostles isn’t overly relevant to the broader argument, since in verse 20, the Lord Jesus makes it clear that He is not just praying for the eleven apostles, but also for all those who will believe in Him through their word.<br><br>The language then gets even stronger as the Lord prays for this broader group to have unity with one another and unity with Himself and the Father. Verse 24 then says, “Father, I desire that THEY also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that THEY may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.”<br><br>Therefore, whatever the precise referent of “them” is in verse 12, verse 24 explicitly refers to the broader group of believers included in Jesus’ prayer and identifies them as those whom the Father has given Him. That language directly aligns with the Father-given people described in John 6, particularly John 6:37 and <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUihB5DI7Rk&amp;t=399">6:39</a>.

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• MI

  @MicahBBurke · 8 days ago (edited)

  <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUihB5DI7Rk&amp;t=580">9:40</a> - Did Jesus pray for Judas? &nbsp;No? &nbsp;Then it&apos;s applicable to the elect. &nbsp;Regardless why does Jesus NOT pray for those not given by the father. &nbsp; Even if it&apos;s just the apostles - he still DIDN&apos;T pray for Judas and others.

• C.

  @c.m.granger6870 · 12 days ago (edited)

  Chris Date isn&apos;t a Calvinist. &nbsp;Calvinists aren&apos;t Annihilationists.

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• PE

  @Penitent1046 · 12 days ago

  The answer to the first question asked by the Calvinist is no. No sacrifice procured unconditional salvation for any man in any covenant.

• DA

  @davidguill8969 · 11 days ago

  A spectacular example of why sola scriptora doesn&apos;t work. Both agreed one another had possible readings and came to no conclusions.

• DI

  @Dizerner · 13 days ago

  John 12:47 says: &quot;And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.&quot;<br><br>Notice very clearly that this sentence all references the exact same people as objects, those whom Jesus is not judging specifically. This is one group logically connected by &quot;for&quot; in the middle. This group is both described as not believing and simultaneously those whom Christ came to save. This definitively proves Christ died for some people who are not saved.