MAGES BOT LANE: Tier List, Why are they OP and What Comes Next?

Comments · 733

• AB

  @abelninjaboy · 2 months ago

  IDK about you guys, but the convo regarding dodging is a bit biased. Its much much easier dodging skillshots in a solo lane than in a duo lane. Specially so vs dual mage. That is precisely the issue sometimes you get in positions were you will get hit by one spell if you dodge other.

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• WE

  @WesternCanon · 2 months ago (edited)

  Also, on the “mages bot have been a problem for longer than we think” point:<br><br>The ADC subreddit has been talking about this for about a year and a half. The push waves, like with spells, kill under tower, build a huge CS lead. There’s very little counterplay besides playing one yourself.<br><br>You guys frequently say the strongest champs are the ones that change the way the game is played on a fundamental level; mages bot do that as a class to the entire lane.

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• IS

  @isaacwalters8210 · 2 months ago

  To be honest it feels like a mana issue. I can dodge 9/10 abilities but if only 1 hits me i take massive damage and then its very difficulty to find an angle to engage. I just find it so unfun to spend the first 15 mins of the game dodging an endless barrage of spells from the adp AND the support. It doesnt feel so bad with a competent support. But in soloq playing against any apc feels like the gulag. Maybe im just a emerald shitter lol.

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• SA

  @Samuel-nh6me · 2 months ago (edited)

  I think the way adc itemization is currently plays a lot into the issue. If im not completely misremembering, mages started appearing in botlane after noonquiver was reworked into a different component. ADC&apos;s lost their &quot;lost chapter&quot; item, which was extremely powerful for early wave control. Around the same time, they made first slot crit items (at least ones oriented for hypercarries) have punishing build paths (BF sword, other components being low value). This was fair and fine when it was just ADCs versing other ADCs. But now that mages have been brought into the mix, it doesnt really feel fair to play against a champion of a different class that has more lane control, which makes it harder for you to get a 1300g base off, while simultaneously being able to spend gold at ~400g increments. Just think about how shit it would feel to build a Luden&apos;s from A needlessly large rod, mana crystal and a version of hextech alternator, which gives 10 haste instead of ap and costs 500 gold.

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• KR

  @Kriskoooooooo · 2 months ago (edited)

  That&apos;s the first video that has Charlie exclusively on the tumbnail. Time to lock in!

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• RA

  @RageBubbles · 2 months ago

  NATHAN&apos;S MAILBAG???? HELLO??

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• AL

  @alishahoud9148 · 2 months ago

  It simple with mage I can play the game and have impact without depending on my sup in lane and later on my jungle and top to peel for me

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• DE

  @DexterousHobo · 2 months ago

  It&apos;s easy to understand. They have the ranged damage you look for from an ADC, but they also have poke, self peel, mobility, and all the things that ADCs aren&apos;t allowed to have due to &quot;balance problems&quot; remember. It&apos;s okay if Katarina or Swain can dive into the enemy and get a penta, but if Samira can reliably do that it&apos;s bad for the game.

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• VA

  @vanmartr · 2 months ago

  I don’t think there’s an issue for mages bot IF they were balanced around the bot lane. Balanced around having a support, balanced around having prio, etc. but they’re not. They’re balanced around solo mid and that makes a difference.

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• DA

  @DampBridge · 2 months ago (edited)

  I think about the framing. &quot;As an adc i can beat a mage with a specific type of support&quot; as if you can win a 2v1 with the right comp. And the mage will also have a support

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• JA

  @jacobcannon8876 · 2 months ago (edited)

  There are plenty of mages who can still be useful if they fall behind because they have CC in their kits, I think Curtis is so off the mark here. Yes, ADCs scale if they get their resources eventually, but in terms of who is more useful from behind I&apos;d easily give mages the edge. Not to mention mages are often better at farming from distance and can still sidelane as well if not better than most ADCs (exceptions being the duelist ADCs). I&apos;m also so sick of hearing about the Tristana/Lucian/Corki mid meta as if it&apos;s somehow comparable, it mostly only existed for GM+ and the pickrate in SoloQ still didn&apos;t approach the 20% presence that Phroxzon said mages in bot represent today.<br><br>Mages just matchup well into marksmen; a marksman has to put much more effort into beating a mage than vice versa (hence Charlie&apos;s burden of execution comments). The effort-reward ratio is out of whack-- Imagine if Yorick players had to play against a dumbed down version of Irelia in 20% of their matches, of course they&apos;d complain.<br><br>Charlie also nails the awkwardness of the dynamic when talking about the relationship between tanks and ADCs. Everyone does more damage now, fewer players play utility and tank, and a higher percentage of the league games played are played with and against high-threat team comps--the entire environment is just less friendly for marksmen.

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• ZE

  @zenith_journey · 2 months ago

  One angle to make marksman more useful in a game is towers. They used to be way harder to damage as an AP champion

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