The Moral Puzzle at the Center of The Last of Us

Comments · 3.8K

• CH

  @Chorongy- · 3 years ago

  In that mission after the cannibalism, Ellie is shocked and sad. His way of trying to cheer her up is answering all the questions she asked along the way at which he used scoff. It's not selfish at all, he's doing the best he can to get her to stop thinking about that experience. He's a broken character, a good man who's beyond his limit.

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• SI

  @sinlesssoul · 3 years ago

  I think the issue is that the &apos;moral high ground&apos; is lost by the Fireflies when they intentionally refuse to inform Ellie (and also Joel) that the procedure will claim her life. Joel only finds out about it because he pieced it together, and the duplicitous behavior of the Fireflies is what sets him down the violent path of saving Ellie. In many ways, you could say that the narrative is trying to warn about the dangers of lies (even lies by omission). Imagine how different the entire scenario would have been if the Fireflies just told Joel and Ellie from the beginning that the procedure would likely kill her (and that they wouldn&apos;t perform the procedure without their consent).<br><br>This would have given Joel and Ellie time to consider the weight of their choices, and it would have also fostered respect towards the fireflies for being so open and honest about their intentions. Yet by choosing to withhold that information out of fear that Ellie (or Joel) would reject the procedure, they give Joel almost no time to process the full weight of what is happening and force him to make a quick and terrible decision out of pure desperation.

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• SO

  @Somegoy · 3 years ago (edited)

  As a father of a 5 year old girl......I played this game before fatherhood, and I found myself thinking Joel did everything a normal father would do. After becoming a father and replaying the game......I am twice as steadfast in my decision. Joel is an actual real man in a broken video game world. The writing of this game is some of the best in any piece of entertainment ever.

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• BR

  @bryophytemedia · 3 years ago

  I’ve never seen someone so efficiently counter their own valid arguments in a previously disected video. This channel is a gift that keeps on giving!

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• LA

  @Ladyoftheroundtable · 3 years ago

  I have achieved an understanding of why sarah&apos;s death hits so hard in the game. It&apos;s the crying. She&apos;s not just crying in pain, but fear. It&apos;s deeply upsetting. Her voice actress deserves an award if she didn&apos;t already get one

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• SU

  @sunnie3234 · 3 years ago

  the reasoning for joel not asking ellie about her past isnt because he was just “trying to find any daughter”. its because he probably knows what its like to be asked questions you arent ready to share yet, and possibly by just sharing things without her asking/when she asks would give her more inclination, and feel more comfortable sharing her past with him.

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• DA

  @DadJokeSamurai · 3 years ago

  I think Joel actually cared deeply about Tess. &nbsp;You pointed out the unintentional feeling that slips out when he sees the wound, but I&apos;d argue his behavior toward her in that scene wasn&apos;t distance, rather, him trying desperately to be dispassionate and cold, but he can&apos;t help how much he feels behind his gruff exterior.

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• GA

  @gatling216 · 3 years ago

  The key here really is the Fireflies. I just beat the game this evening and was ranting to some friends about how the ending sort of betrayed the core thesis of the game. Had the Fireflies come off as even marginally less shady and a little more competent, then Joel’s decision to save Ellie would have been a lot more questionable. Instead, we see from their notes that they have no idea what they’re doing. It almost feels like they’re psyching themselves up for this big sacrifice because they NEED it to mean something. Yeah, it’s bad science, but the writers could have hand waved it to hint that it might have worked. But they didn’t. <br><br>Then there’s the way they treated Joel and Ellie. There was no informed consent from Ellie. If she was given the choice, I think she would have sacrificed herself. That’s just who she is. And much like Tess, if Joel was given a chance to talk with her, he would have honored her choice. The whole thing could have been avoided. Instead, they try to bully a man who fought his way across the country with a teenage girl to look after, and expect him to just walk away. <br><br>Joel lying to Ellie was bad, yes. I would argue indefensible. Buuuut cutting through the Fireflies like a hot knife through butter felt entirely justified. Hell, I would argue necessary. Even if I cared nothing for Ellie, I wouldn’t trust humanity’s last best hope to that lot.

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• BL

  @blameyourlag9455 · 3 years ago

  I think the point Druckmann and Straley are trying to make with the fireflies in the game is that the fireflies are just like every other group in the wasteland. They&apos;re ruthless, disorganized, and overall incompetent. They are a group that is stuck in the past, trying to bring back a world that is long gone. I mean think about it, Joel travelled the ENTIRETY of the United States just to get this girl to the fireflies and what do they give him? Absolutely nothing, I mean how in the living hell is that not completely ruthless? <br><br>From Joel&apos;s perspective it is a no-brainer to save Ellie. Ellie is essentially his daughter at this point and he finally has a sense of purpose in his life after twenty years of surviving through torture. The possibility of a cure being spread by a group that is already under resourced and not doing well is quite unlikely, and even if they did get the cure, would they even spread it. They have already shown how ruthless they can be and having a cure would make them a #1 target by anyone to get that cure. <br><br>Ellie had no clue going in she was going into die and neither did Joel.

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• WA

  @WAR904 · 3 years ago

  Innocent is a STRONG word for the fireflies

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• CH

  @chadmann2724 · 3 years ago

  Tess not showing weakness over being bitten was a GOD tier way of writing a strong independent woman

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• MA

  @mahega128 · 2 years ago

  He definitely cares about Tess, he just never fully opened himself up to her emotionally in preparedness for her death which unfortunately ended up happening.

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